Brian M. Lucey

Post Brexit will Irish citizens need a visa to go to the EU?

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brianmlucey
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British citizens may have to apply online and pay to travel to Europe after the UK leaves the EU, under plans being drawn up by the bloc for a visa waiver programme similar to the US system.The European commission is due to unveil draft legislation for the EU travel information and authorisation system (Etias) later this year as part of a broader response to calls for greater security across the continent following recent terror attacks in France and Belgium.The scheme would cover all visitors to the passport-free 26-nation Schengen zone – of which Britain is not a member – from countries that do not need a visa to enter, EU sources confirmed.

Source: Britons may have to apply to visit Europe under EU visa waiver scheme | Politics | The Guardian

Now.. this is interesting. I have suggested before that we should consider joining Schengen. As things stand post Brexit we will be the ONLY EU country not therein or moving towards same. The Commission document underlying this is here . A discussion is here

Schengen is a visa free zone. We are in another, the Common Travel area. In effect we have over decades adopted a visa and travel scheme that the UK accepts as equivalent to its own, given the open border with Northern Ireland. But post Brexit that will be an open border with a third country.

We may face a choice – preservation of unrestricted movement with Tyrone or with the Tyrol. Can we remain part of the UK immigration system allowing them free movement into the EU and at the same time remain part of the EU system? Can we negotiate something as complex as that with a commission whom we are , in the Apple case, daily denigrating and catcalling? What makes us special snowflakes?

Schengen will deepen. As Europe moves more right this is inevitable. Can we be outside Schengen and truly be within Europe?

Its a mess.

Comments

11 responses to “Post Brexit will Irish citizens need a visa to go to the EU?”

  1. universitydiary Avatar
    universitydiary

    I guess there’s a theoretical point to be made here, but ultimately the political implications of a hard border with Northern Ireland would be huge, and indeed maintaining it would be impossible. The political implications of a hard border with Tyrol are somewhat more manageable.

    Reply
    1. brianmlucey Avatar
      brianmlucey

      Thats the debate we need to have. And we need to have it recognizing that we are NOT special snowflakes. We are NOT seen in Europe as the lovable rogues we like to think we are.
      Either there is a hard border all around the island, in which case why NOT join Schengen ; or one around the border, in which case, why NOT join Schengen?
      We saw, with Brexit, how ignoring theoretical possibilities in the expectation that they will not happen and failing to sketch out any plans for post the unlikely theoretical thing we hope wont happen, thats a recipe for a colossal mess. So thats almost certainly where we will end up.

      Reply
    2. Stephen Shaw Avatar
      Stephen Shaw

      Ireland already has a hard border with Tyrol.

      A distinction must be made between the border itself and the ability of Irish citizens to cross it:

      Ireland’s Schengen opt-out means travellers from Ireland must pass border controls when going to the Schengen area, whereas Ireland’s EU membership means Irish citizens are guaranteed passage through those border controls.

      Reply
      1. brianmlucey Avatar
        brianmlucey

        These are the tricksy issues all right Stephen And I dont see much debate on them

  2. Batsh!t Britain’s Brexit Border Blues | Brian M. Lucey

    […] Even if we wished to be special snowflakes we will have to coordinate with and gain agreement of the other 26 EU members. Why would they allow us to be such snowflakes? What would they wish for in return? I have written on this here and here. […]

    Reply
  3. David Avatar
    David

    Clause 59 of the proposed legislation states that Ireland will not be bound by the ETIAS scheme or subject to its application. It is therefore hard to see how Irish citizens are affected or how, if that clause wasn’t there, the freedom of movment for Irish EU citizens could be altered without a referendum. In addition, hiw coukd a visa waiver scheme ever apply to EU citizens who have residency entitlement in EU states?

    Reply
    1. brianmlucey Avatar
      brianmlucey

      Problem will be with us then partially in and partially out of both the UK and the EU la migra

      Reply
  4. Stephen Shaw Avatar
    Stephen Shaw

    There is absolutely no question of Irish citizens having to submit to the ETIAS system or obtain Schegen visas after Brexit. Whether or not a passenger must obtain authorization to enter the Schengen area is function of their citizenship, not of their airport of origin. Similarly, a Romanian or a Belgian does not need to seek authorization to enter Ireland, despite it not being in the Schengen area.

    As Irish citizens are EU citizens regardless of Ireland’s status with respect to Schengen, they have the same right to enter and move freely within the Schengen area as any other EU citizen.

    One aspect of Brexit which could be very interesting is that under the Treaty of Amsterdam, Ireland’s opt-out from the Schengen provisions is conditional on the UK’s opt-out. It remains to be seen whether Ireland will be allowed to retain its opt-out post-brexit, or whether brexit will be considered to nullify the UK’s opt-out, forcing Ireland to join the Schengen area.

    Reply
    1. brianmlucey Avatar
      brianmlucey

      Well, lets see.

      Reply
    2. David Avatar
      David

      The UK and Ireland are dealt with separately under the proposed scheme, both having exemption under clause 58 and 59 respectively(each referring to seperate directives). I suspect no change will apply to Ireland; however, as you say, some tweaking might be necessary. I for one am dissapointed to see Ireland siloed with the UK in the referenced newspaper article(exempt from fees, by implication subject to the same scheme), and notwithstanding the various internal implications vis-a-vis the border etc, Ireland is a full member state, although some in the media think we are somehow still dependent on the UK status, when it suits them.

      Reply
      1. David Avatar
        David

        The article I was referring to is another guardian article here:
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/british-travellers-face-5-euro-fee-to-visit-europe-after-brexit

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